半音階專區

as long as [2003/8/29]
下面是我以前在aue討論as long as 這個片語的貼文及外國網友的回應。

讀者有空不妨詳細閱讀一下,這多少可以幫忙了解「語言討論」是怎麼回事。

I recently came across such a sentence in an English textbook published in

Taiwan: "As long as I grow up, I will help orphans as much as possible. "

I feel such use of "as long as" (meaning, "provided that"), quite strange.

How do you gentlemen think about that? Do you think it acceptable or unacceptable? And why?

It seems to me that the phrase should always be used in connection with existing state of affairs as in "As long as you are the boss, you have the last say." - for I believe the meaning of the word "long" should count. But, of course, a lot of examples I have seen in dictionaries seem to treat the phrase as nothing related to its individual components.

第 2 條留言

寄件者:Robert Bryan Lipton ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/29

'As long as' is a way of signalling a condition that exists and is expected

to exist for some time, but will, for the sake of the sentence. Think of

it as a cut-down version of '(For) as long (a time ) as...'

Bob

第 3 條留言

寄件者:Peter Moylan ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/30

You're absolutely correct, and your book is wrong. "As long as xxx"

means "while xxx is still true". The textbook example should have

used "After I grow up" or "As soon as I grow up".

Peter Moylan [email protected]

第 4 條留言

寄件者:slybacon ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/29

Peter Moylan wrote in message ...

>You're absolutely correct, and your book is wrong. "As long as xxx"

>means "while xxx is still true". The textbook example should have

>used "After I grow up" or "As soon as I grow up".

"As long as ... " can also mean "provided that ... ," and with that meaning

"As long as I grow up, I will help orphans as much as possible" means

"Provided that I grow up, I will help orphans as much as possible," which

sounds okay to me, although that may not have been the meaning the author

intended.

第 5 條留言

寄件者:Larry Phillips ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/30

On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:21:35 -0800, "slybacon" wrote:

>"As long as ... " can also mean "provided that ... ," and with that meaning

>"As long as I grow up, I will help orphans as much as possible" means

>"Provided that I grow up, I will help orphans as much as possible," which

>sounds okay to me, although that may not have been the meaning the author

>intended.

I would wager that virtually all native speakers of English would

disagree with you. It _CAN_ mean 'provided that', but only in a very

specific form. Example:

"You may have dessert as long as you eat your vegetables."

You cannot use the form:

"As long as I eat my vegetables, I will have my dessert."

Don't ask me why, though.

People will just look at you real funny if you use the latter.

--

---------------------------------------------------------------

When life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.

-- Grateful Dead

第 6 條留言

寄件者:Neil Coffey ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/30

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Larry Phillips wrote:

> I would wager that virtually all native speakers of English would

> disagree with you. It _CAN_ mean 'provided that', but only in a very

> specific form. Example:

But in the sentence:

As long as I grow up, I'll help orphans.

what else could it mean?

Neil

第 7 條留言

寄件者:Eric The Read ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/30

Neil Coffey writes:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Larry Phillips wrote:

> But in the sentence:

>

> As long as I grow up, I'll help orphans.

>

> what else could it mean?

Well, my native-speaker intuition had it meaning "Until I no longer grow

up", which would tend to mean reaching maturity. I'd never even

considered the alternative you seem to find preferable.

-=Eric

第 8 條留言

寄件者:Larry Phillips ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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日期:1998/10/31

>But in the sentence:

>

> As long as I grow up, I'll help orphans.

>

>what else could it mean?

Well, it can mean nothing else, but sounds completely wrong.

If someone said it to me, I'd have to ask for a rephrasing, because it

makes absolutely no sense to me at all. "as long as I am growing

up..." sounds OK, and is likely how I'd interpret it, the assumption

being that the speaker just got the tenses wrong.

When life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.

-- Grateful Dead

第 9 條留言

寄件者:Evan Kirshenbaum ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/30

> I would wager that virtually all native speakers of English would

> disagree with you. It _CAN_ mean 'provided that', but only in a very

> specific form. Example:

>

> "You may have dessert as long as you eat your vegetables."

>

> You cannot use the form:

>

> "As long as I eat my vegetables, I will have my dessert."

On the other hand, you can have

As long as I get to have pie for dessert, I'll eat my vegetables.

and I don't think I have any problem with

As long as I eat my vegetables, mom will let me have dessert.

or

As long as I get a chance to study, I'll pass the test.

> Don't ask me why, though.

Or me.

--

第 10 條留言

寄件者:Gerald B Mathias ([email protected])

主旨:Re: the use of "as long as"

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網上論壇:alt.usage.english

日期:1998/10/31

: > "You may have dessert as long as you eat your vegetables."

: >

: > You cannot use the form:

: >

: > "As long as I eat my vegetables, I will have my dessert."

: On the other hand, you can have

: As long as I get to have pie for dessert, I'll eat my vegetables.

: As long as I eat my vegetables, mom will let me have dessert.

: As long as I get a chance to study, I'll pass the test.

: > Don't ask me why, though.

: Or me.

Nobody has asked whether any of this shows a difference to "provided that." For me, that can replace any of the working "as long as"es above, but I don't much like "Provided I eat my

vegetables, I ..." It sounds like "I" has no control over eating the vegetables or not. As to the why, it's something like "the subject of the main clause must not have control of the truth value of the clause following "as long as/provided that." Perhaps it can be put in terms of agency and patiency?

Bart Mathias

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